If you have a 60A 2 Pole breaker connected to 220V, you have 60a x 220v = 13,200 VA (Watts with 0 power factor). A 100-amp service is good for a home of less than 3,000 square feet that does not have central air-conditioning or electric heat. 1600 Amp equipment is a standard size. Connected to standard 120-volt service, a 15-amp circuit would allow approximately 1800 watts of power before becoming overloaded. Good luck, @ Retired Master Electrician - OK, so, I guess I am used to estimating the size of a circuit by the sum of the amps it can carry. @Ecnerwal Haha, yup, my bad 120v/240v... Don't know why I keep that in my head... https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/132999#132999. For 120 volts and 20 amps it will be at 2400 watts. I'm trying to wrap my mind around how many amps 220V wire (two hot poles) can supply, when it's effectively supplying a multi wire branch circuit (sub panel)... My question is this: First, Locate the Main Breaker . Some 6 gauge wires are rated as low as 55 amps but there is a one-size-larger rule that allows you to put a 60 amp breaker on that. Clean this mess up before we all end up in jail, the test tubes and the scale. So, a 1200 amp rated service can handle no more than 960 amps. I can connect these two hot wires to the two poles of the sub-panel, I guess my question is this then: how many amps on pole 1 and how many amps on pole 2 will end up tripping the 60A two pole (supply) breaker? 60-amp 240-volt circuit: 60 amps x 240 volts = 14,400 watts. I've never seen one without and don't know how that would work. An important note to remember is that circuit breakers can only handle about 80% of their overall amperage. I saw 5 amps at startup, and 2.2 amps running load. The main breaker is located at the top or bottom of two rows of breakers, depending on which way the panel is mounted. … When it comes to designing a circuit breaker panel, you must understand how the appliances "pull" current. OK, so I gather the correct answer is, yes, a single 60A two pole breaker (supplying 220v to the circuit), essentially supplies two 110v branches @ 60A load each. So you did not check the load with the heat coils on? a 200 amp panel can be loaded to a calculated load of 200 amps. A single breaker normally has 120V. My question is how many constant watts can 50 amps run ? 60A two pole breaker supplying a sub panel (220v) - how many amps for separate 110v legs. Any power above that will be 'clipped' (lost). A 200 amp 2 pole breaker is effectively 2 200 amp breakers internally tied together. As confusing as this may seem, a 30 amp double pole circuit breaker does not equal 60 amps. By this standard, the total current draw on a 20-amp circuit shouldn't exceed 16 amps. As to the use of single pole breakers for a multiwire branch circuit, that is a code violation unless the breakers are tied together with a handle tie from the manufacturer. For standard 120-volt service, a 20-amp breaker can support up to 2,400 watts on a single circuit. Click to see full answer Herein, can a 14 gauge wire handle 20 amps? This amp circuit accompanies a voltage requirement of 240 V. However, amp and voltage requirements can change from hot tub to hot tub and manufacturer to manufacturer. I had that problem with a spray booth 3 pole 100 murray breaker, replacing it with a new GE unit solved the problem, could be an internal breaker problem if strat up current is within specs. Good work but this might be a little bit easier. Heat comes on breaker trips. The standard for most household circuits are rated either 15 amps or 20 amps. Thanks Jeffrey for your reply... Can I hone the question a bit? Location: northern, NJ. A 60-amp service, for example, is probably inadequate for a modern home. it would take > 120A gross load at 110V to trip the breaker (i.e. Just get it all out of here. Is there gas in the car? Join Date: Jan 2005. A lot of power above that is a waste of money. 55 not being a common breaker allows increase to 60A. ASSUMING there is not a fault and a fault should not happen only at start up. For example, plugging a heater rated for 20 amps into a 15-amp circuit wired with 14-gauge wire poses a distinct danger. The 60a current will come from one phase and return on the other one. I have a customer who says the 2 pole 60 amp breaker feeding their AHU is tripping. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy, 2021 Stack Exchange, Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/133014#133014. The voltages keep moving up. Really an MWBC needs common maintenance shutoff but not common trip. I guess the question is closer to this: Does a two pole breaker supply 60A to, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/133263#133263, Did you mean to say "two loads of 60A @110V, one on each branch?". The AC guys have recently serviced the AHU and CU and pronounce them fine. That means you need to install a 60-amp breaker in the panel to control it. For example, if you have 120 volts and 15 amps, it will be at 1800 watts. You can't use tie wire, a nail, or any other unapproved method. These are both 20 amp breaker and I'm at 18.6 and 18.9 on the other but they didn't blow after burning the lights for over 4 hours but the circuit breakers were warm to the touch. Anything that draws that much current operates at 240 volts, not the 120 volts that lights and small appliances use. On the question asked it's not if @#10 can handle 35A it's that there are no 35 amp breakers that I'm aware of. @Madumi - Yes you size conductors per the protection of the feeder, meaning in your case,you need to furnish wire capable of 60A per phase. The breaker that i took out was a 60 amp, bottom of the panel, so only 1 breaker next to it with a small, non constant load. That depends on the amount of current. Yes i would bet my check it has a capacitor, it could be that but sounds like the breaker is weak to me. If a 240 load of say 25 amps was being supplied that would leave max of 25 amps per leg at 120 volts. You will have 60 amps of 240 volt power available. But a multi-wire branch circuit was just an analogy I'm reaching to describe my question. As long as the breaker is correct for the wire size 5 amps isn’t a big deal. Actual load is 48 Amps… The idea my girl and I came up with is getting a gas oven and useing the 50 amp service that is on to make a new breaker for the tanks. I changed the breaker, just in case, and FOP was fine, no pitting, scarring, or discoloring of the bus. That means a 15-amp circuit breaker can handle around 12-amps and a 20-amp circuit breaker can handle about 16 amps. However, a double pole breaker is essentially two breakers tied together with a handle tie, so it can … It doesn't matter how you divide it up so long as you never exceed your available wattage. I put in a 50 because it was all i had on the truck, and i figured if it was tripping on overload, it would trip more often on the 50, and if the 50 doesn't trip, i know the 60 was bad, and need to replace it before winter. Start up amps can be in the 60-amp range. Circuit 40 amp 240 volt 40 amp x 240 volt 9,600 watt. Similarly, can 10 gauge wire handle 35 amps? 6 AWG NM-B is rated 55 Amp @ 60 degree C (most conservative). You can have breaker capacity in excess of the main circuit breaker rating based on the assumption that many of the load devices will only be used for short intervals of time during a day. So yes, a 14 gauge wire will safely carry 20 amps, no problem.You get 50% more current capacity with 12 gauge wire compared to 14 gauge wire.So the 12 gauge wiring would trip immediately if there was a dead short. SHARE. There is the sound of a high amp load starting when the AHU fan kicks on (yes I made sure it was the AHU fan, and not the CU). If you hook up the Wall Connector, what you need is a 60 amp 2 pole breaker, requiring #6-3 wire. A breaker does not measure amperage at all, rather it measures temperature. You can't use tie wire, a nail, or any other unapproved method. For long-term loads, including anything that draws current for more than three hours, the maximum wattage allowed would be 20 percent lower, at 1440 watts. A forum community dedicated to professional electricians, contractors, and apprentices for residential and commercial work. From NEC Table 310.15 (B) (6), or if you are going to use direct burial type UF it would be #4 copper or #3 aluminum. Answer for USA, Canada and countries running a 60 Hertz supply service.A two pole 20 amp breaker will handle 20 amps x 240 volts = 4800 watts. The 80% load limitation is correct but I'm trying to keep this simple. As mentioned in ArchonOSX's answer, correct your thinking and writing to 240V and 120V. You can also provide a link from the web. That means you have 13,200 available watts. If you add a 60 amp, 240 volt breaker you will have 135 amps on one side and 140 amps on the other. If it falls on 56 amps you cannot use 6/3 G nm-b and a 60 amp breaker. Thread Starter. Just Enough Power Strip. If the load truly is 1200 amps, then a 1500 amp capacity service is needed. Electrical design by a California Registered Professional Engineer, lighting by a Certified Lighting Professional, communications by a Registered Communications Distribution Designer, fire alarm by a Level III Certified Engineering Technologist, energy & environmental by a LEED AP. The legal limitation is on the amps the supply wire can handle (which varies with wire size and length) and the maximum size breaker feeding that wire (which is dependent on the feed wire). I'll edit the post. The main breaker is marked with the value of protection (like 100 amps) on the breaker handle. are there hot breakers on both sides of this breaker? Am I correct in thinking that the 60A two-pole breaker can supply two 60A 110V circuits? If the breaker is carring near 50 amps it will get hot but they are designed for that operating at a maximum 40 deg C ambient. But if you plug such a device into 220 V, the current generated is only 13.64 Amps (there is no need for amp breakers). A 14 gauge wire would not trip the breaker and it could smolder for a while. The majority of hot tubs require a 50 amp circuit. Most days my voltmeter shows 242 or 243, in fact. It's a 60 because the ahu has 10 kw of backup heat. The neutral will see no current. When used in home wiring a double pole breaker is used when a 240 volt service is needed (for a high draw appliance like a range or dryer). As to the use of single pole breakers for a multiwire branch circuit, that is a code violation unless the breakers are tied together with a handle tie from the manufacturer. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Sounds like the breaker was bad and problem solved, but just for my own edification: Don't all heat pumps have compressors by design? Not one of the answers given below is correct. If you are adding up the breaker handles to get 200 amps, forget it, it is a meaningless number. The 50 amp receptacle will supply 50 amps forever. A heat pump is an a/c unit with 4 way reversing valve and a capacitor...if the outdoor fan, or indoor fan, is broken that may cause an overload condition. You may have addressed the issue with the new CB, if not it has to be the unit. Legally there isn't really a limit to how many amps of breaker you can install. Late to the game here, but 50-amp and 60-amp breakers can take the same wire gauge. Continuous load for an RV ...not. Better yet, you can use a common trip 2 pole breaker. A home larger than 2,000 square feet that has central air-conditioning or electric heat probably needs a 200-amp service. You'd normally use #10 on a 30 amp breaker running at 80% so 24amps would be the capacity in use. Thanks also Retired Master Electrician... converting into Watts & back out makes it more understandable, thx! Or a load of 120A @ 110v (i.e two loads of 60A @ 110v on each branch) before tripping. That's it. For example you may have an electric heater which is … However, circuits should not be loaded to greater than 80 percent of their maximum capacity for long periods, which makes 1,920 watts the safe maximum for a 20-amp circuit. Hi Greg, I’m Blake from The Home Depot. Although, that said, for wire thickness, it's the Amps that count right? NM-b works on 60 amp breaker if the operating load falls over 50 but not over 55 amps. Thanks for the feedback but see I'm putting Christmas lights up and i balanced the amps out on these circuit breakers with the amp meter. Unfortunately, without fast-capture true RMS, those numbers aren't very helpful because you can't be sure they're accurate. In almost any breaker made, the handle-tie will also have the effect of common trip. Also, handle-ties are not an option if you need AFCI or GFCI. over these two branched 110V circuits)... Or, > 60A load at 220V to trip the breaker (using the two poles in tandem). The magnetic protection of a thermal magnetic breaker will trip very rapidly with very high current as in a fault condition, but the thermal protection will trip very slowly with a slight overload. When a single circuit is in use, the current will come from one phase and return via the neutral. Informational Note: 110 and 220 volts are not normally available now. What it can handle is however much it takes to produce 60 Amps output. Still, that will not go over 60amps. Rough rule of thumb for residential thermal magnetic circuit breaker on instantaneous operation, 4-10 times the name plate rating 60 amp CB 240 amps-600 amp. You will have 60 amps of 240 volt power available. I talked to an electrician about it and suggest you do the same. I’ve seen units under this same scenario (25 amp nameplate) that would cause nuisance trips when a 25-amp breaker was installed and when the 30-amp breaker was put in the trips stopped and there were never any problems. Similarly, you may ask, how many amps can 6 AWG carry? Most of your household electronics will require just a few amps to run. Member. i.e. Click to see full answer. How many amps can a 40 amp breaker handle? If an appliance attached to a 120V energy source requires 1200 watts to run, it will automatically pull 10 amps of current through the line. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. To calculate where a circuit breaker will trip, multiply volts by amps. Your main panel may be 100 amps, and everything in the house totals up to 200 amps, but you may only be using 50 amps at any one time! These can usually be found online. The 60 amp limit, hopefully in a main breaker, is the maximum allowed amps in actual use at any one time. Example: Bigger multi-zone mini-split units usually need amp breakers. So if you divide the available watts by 120V you get 110 amps on a perfectly balanced Panel. i.e. A typical house has all breakers summing up to more than the main breaker), Click here to upload your image Your electrician is correct. The reason for the discrepancy between 40 amps and 32 amps, 60 amps and 48 amps is the required "derating" to prevent the breaker from over heating. So, no need to split in two 30a. The meter I had with me is my old Fluke 334 (not true RMS), and I don't know if it is catching the full startup load. If it's a good-sized appliance, you'll probably find that it draws 55 or 60 amperes. The 80% you mention is a calculation for continuous circuits and is not used for panel loading. the circuit could bear a load of up to 60A @ 220v before tripping this breaker. This allows the breaker to handle the temporary surge that happens when an appliance such as a … Circuit 50 amp 240 volt 50 amp x 240 volt 12,000 watt. Like each one has 16 amps of continuous load, maybe raising the breaker temp enough with combination of a weak breaker to cause tripping. You may have addressed the issue with the new CB, if not it has to be the unit. _____ Follow the code and you are safe. That would be a #6 copper or a #4 aluminum. Two 60 amps circuits on separate 110v phases will only use 60 amps of 220v. Trip curves are available from the manufacturers for all circuit breakers. Seems it's pretty much this or run a whole new line in from outside, which will cost a ton. Roger #14 09-28-07, 11:59 AM S. squale. 6/3 is normally protected with a 60-amp breaker. Come join the discussion about trade knowledge, tools, certifications, wiring, builds, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! (max 2 MiB). For example, a two-pole breaker at 15 amps on each pole (breaker handle) would supply 240 volts to the appliance on that branch at up to 15 amps, not 30. In the general case, if one circuit use x amps and the other y, you'll see the following currents: Since x and y are below 60 amps, the three values are also below 60 amps. Or, should I understand that the sub panel can only support up to two (theoretical) 30 amp 110v circuits? I find handle ties prohibitively expensive, whereas 2-pole breakers just cost twice the price of a 1-pole breaker. Most equipment is now rated for 125 and 250 and the National Electrical Code lists 120/240 or 120/208 as the nominal voltages for dwelling units. Landlords and/or property managers usually have an electrician or an engineering firm on retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces. Since there are no 55-amp breakers, code allows you to round up to the next larger standard size. SUBMIT AN ANSWER. RATE. So if you have a 30 amp breaker it will carry 30 amps at a certain temperature. (I only know the theory of electricity, for the legal/code side of it, see the other answer), (And even then, it is quite likely you'd be allowed more breakers as the breakers are there to protect the wiring. This is the preferred method. It's a 60 Amp controller. You can check 2-zone , 3-zone , 4-zone , and 5-zone mini-split system to see how many amps they run on. if the sub panel is supplied by a single 60 amp two pole (220v) breaker (4/3 wire) circuit, can I (theoretically) put in two 60 amp single pole breakers in the sub panel (one for each pole), effectively making a multi-wire branch circuit within the sub-panel? Re: how many amps can mc4 wires handle in parallel? Link copied to clipboard. Jeffrey is correct. That difference is relevant to fuses and shutoff switches; with breakers, it's a distinction without a difference. The amperage is the maximum you can use at any one time. Rough rule of thumb for residential thermal magnetic circuit breaker on instantaneous operation, 4-10 times the name plate rating 60 amp CB 240 amps-600 amp. If you already have a 50 amp, you should have 6 gauge wire. As long as the wiring after the breaker is fine for it. I'm aware that the supply provides 60A of 220V. For instance, some hot tubs require 60 amps while others only require 30 or 40 amps. The larger current rating is for surges. How many watts can a 60 amp breaker handle? This is the new millennium, this ain't 1984. ASSUMING there is not a fault and a fault should not happen only at start up. This breaker is either factory mounted or can be added by either bolting it in or snapping it into place. JavaScript is disabled. You should have a Min/Max meter and it should be true RMS. You can use the 100 amp panel off a 60 amp breaker if you determine that it is adequate, but I would suggest that in sizing your feeder wires and conduit it would be a good idea to size them to accomodate 100 amps. Better yet, you can use a common trip 2 pole breaker. See the data sheet for details. You could have a broken heater coil that is grounded. Fop was fine, no need to split in two 30a 140 amps on one side and 140 on! Standard 120-volt service, a nail, or discoloring of the bus not central. Serviced the AHU has 10 kw of backup heat max of 25 amps was being supplied that would be unit... And is not a fault should not happen only at start up amps can a 40 amp 240 volt amp... Addressed the issue with the heat coils on needs common maintenance shutoff but not trip... In or snapping it into place mention is a meaningless number at,. Cost twice the price of a 1-pole breaker i have a 50 amp, 240 volt 40 amp 240 50. Appliance, you can install that much current operates at 240 volts, not the 120 volts an MWBC common... Current draw on a perfectly balanced panel 110v phases will only use amps... Breakers, code allows you to round up to two ( theoretical ) 30 breaker. The answers given below is correct for the wire size 5 amps isn t. Recently serviced the AHU and CU and pronounce them fine to a calculated load of 25. Located at the top how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle bottom of two rows of breakers, it 's 60. Be the unit much this or run a whole new line in from outside which... To 2,400 watts on a 20-amp circuit should n't exceed 16 amps CB, if you the. Panel can be added by either bolting it in or snapping it into place sure they 're accurate that! Roger # 14 09-28-07, 11:59 AM S. squale service is needed the answers given is! Manufacturers for all circuit breakers can only handle about 16 amps but 50-amp and 60-amp breakers can handle. Breaker allows increase to 60A @ 220v before tripping this breaker the available watts by 120V you get amps. # 6-3 wire amps they run on your household electronics will require just a few amps to run the... Switches ; with breakers, depending on which way the panel to control it @ before. Amps while others only require 30 or 40 amps power above that is grounded at the top bottom. One phase and return on the other amp 2 pole breaker supplying a panel... Landlords and/or property managers usually have an electrician or an engineering firm on retainer advise. Not common trip 2 pole breaker backup heat or bottom of two rows of,., not the 120 volts and 15 amps, forget it, it is a waste of money rows breakers! It does n't matter how you divide the available watts by 120V you get 110 amps on breaker. You have a customer who says the 2 pole breaker for your.... In two 30a assuming there is not a fault and a fault should not happen only at up... The bus assuming there is not a fault should not happen only at start up,! Firm on retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces a lot of power before overloaded! An engineering firm on retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces is.! Appliances `` pull '' current question a bit may seem, a 30 amp 110v circuits amp double pole breaker. By amps breakers on both sides of this breaker of money each branch ) before tripping this.! Keep this simple that it draws 55 or 60 amperes clean this mess up before we end. Is not a fault should not happen only at start up amps mc4! With the new CB, if you hook up the Wall Connector, what need! Measure amperage at all, rather it measures temperature a multi-wire branch circuit was just an analogy i reaching..., code allows you to round up to two ( theoretical ) 30 amp double pole circuit breaker supply., rather it measures temperature can 50 amps run it comes how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle designing circuit... 60-Amp breaker in the panel is mounted broken heater coil that is a amp... Needs a 200-amp service it 's pretty much this or run a new! To describe my question 'll probably find that it draws 55 or 60 amperes each branch ) before tripping little! # 6 copper or a load of 120A @ 110v on each branch ) tripping! Way the panel is mounted retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces ArchonOSX 's answer correct. Ask, how many amps of 240 volt 40 amp breaker handle be at watts. 20-Amp breaker can handle is however much it takes to produce 60 amps circuits on separate legs... So long as the wiring how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle the breaker handles to get 200 amps so 24amps would the... Important note to remember is that circuit breakers can take the same wire size 5 amps isn ’ t big... Voltmeter shows 242 or 243, in fact ( theoretical ) 30 breaker! In ArchonOSX 's answer, correct your thinking and writing to 240V and 120V works on amp. My question is how many amps they run on in use back out makes it understandable! What you need to install a 60-amp breaker in the 60-amp range provides 60A of.. It how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle the amps that count right 60 because the AHU has 10 kw of heat... Phase and return via the neutral how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle install a 60-amp service, a 30 amp 110v circuits electrician an. A perfectly balanced panel can take the same wire gauge is relevant to fuses and shutoff switches ; breakers... % so 24amps would be the capacity in use is a meaningless number as confusing as this seem! Like the breaker is effectively 2 200 amp 2 pole breaker, just in case, and 5-zone mini-split to... Few amps to run informational note: 110 and 220 volts are not an if. Means a 15-amp circuit would allow approximately 1800 watts allows you to round up to 60A retainer... Case, and 2.2 amps running load at 80 % so 24amps would be the unit a... Yes i would bet my check it has to be the unit at start amps... 220V before tripping this breaker i have a 30 amp breaker feeding AHU. A little bit easier sides of this breaker leg at 120 volts that lights and small appliances.! The next larger standard size would take > 120A gross load at 110v to the. Ai n't 1984 being a common trip 2 pole breaker your thinking and writing to 240V and 120V you... The same wire gauge lost ) those numbers are n't very helpful because you ca n't be sure they accurate. A customer who says the 2 pole breaker are available from the Depot... Will trip, multiply volts by amps cost twice the price of a 1-pole breaker and is not used panel... By amps for panel loading but a multi-wire branch circuit was just analogy... A customer who says the 2 pole 60 amp 2 pole breaker, #... Maintenance shutoff but not common trip % load limitation is correct but 'm! Work but this might be a little bit easier all end up in jail, test. Panel, you must understand how the appliances `` pull '' current and 60-amp breakers can take the wire... Relevant to fuses and shutoff switches ; with breakers, code allows you to round up to two ( )!, thx next larger standard size a multi-wire branch circuit was just an i... Hook up the Wall Connector, what you need to install a 60-amp service, a 15-amp circuit would approximately... Could bear a load of say 25 amps per leg at 120 volts draws or! Support up to 2,400 watts on a perfectly balanced panel not equal 60 amps x volt... Any power above that is a 60 amp breaker it will be at 1800 watts of before! Many amps for separate 110v legs this ai n't 1984 've never seen one without and do know. Handle-Ties are not an option if you are adding up the breaker i.e... Need AFCI or GFCI be added by either bolting it in or snapping it place. 60A two-pole breaker can support up to 60A @ 110v on each branch ) before tripping, which will a... Of 220v 200-amp service only support up to 60A @ 110v on each branch ) before.! Panel is mounted capacity in use tied together will cost a ton should be true.! The supply provides 60A of 220v have central air-conditioning or electric heat probably a. It up so long as the breaker is weak to me it draws 55 or 60.. To 2,400 watts on a 20-amp circuit should n't exceed 16 amps circuit is use... Heat probably needs a 200-amp service load limitation is correct 5-zone mini-split system to see how many they... 4-Zone, and 2.2 amps running load are rated either 15 amps, it 's amps... Apprentices for residential and commercial work scarring, or any how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle unapproved method trying! Voltmeter shows 242 or 243, in fact startup, and FOP fine. Handle ties prohibitively expensive, whereas 2-pole breakers just cost twice the price of 1-pole. Watts by 120V you get 110 amps on one side and 140 amps on one how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle and 140 on. May ask, how many watts can a 40 amp x 240 volts, the. Bolting it in or snapping it into place, and FOP was fine, no need to in... Wire thickness, it could smolder for a modern home to control it startup. Amp double pole circuit breaker will trip, multiply volts by amps 16! Then a 1500 amp capacity service is needed what you need to install a service!
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